Both the Holodomor and Chinese famine were caused by politicians that ignore actual agrarian science from actual farmers with actual farming experience. The bad yield was caused precisely by this ignoring of proven science. And the Holodomor had been especially bad for Ukraine because it was the USSR’s bread basket because the Soviet authorities extracted as much food as possible, mirroring the Great Famine in Ireland when the British imperialists exported food from Ireland despite the massive starvation.
The Chinese failure of agriculture was under embargo from the West’s proven science and supply chains. They were forced to come up with their own solutions from scratch from a starting position that was far far behind the rest of the world.
Lysenko was operating in a world where the West had developed the theory of the gene but not yet proven the gene existed and the West immediately developed it into eugenics from its racist tyrannical fascist politics, and Lysenko and the politicians were reacting to that. While Europeans were going around saying “genetics is real therefore we should kill all the poors and the browns before they taint our bloodline”, the Soviets were saying “if we improve social conditions then people will heal for generations to come”.
I know we are literally awash in comic book level propaganda where the evil Soviets were dastardly lying to everyone for power and control, but if you actually read the history, the narratives we have been fed start to look a lot like outright lies.
100% if they had followed the science they would have done better, but science is not apolitical, research on heredity especially so, and without any molecular basis for the theory of genetics, it looks a lot like master race politics.
Chinese people and Slavic peoole arent geniuses even when they work together collectively. They make stupid decisions just like you and me and other Westerners do too. Honestly being a genius is like a 1 in a milloon thing whether youre a westerner , Chinese, Slavic or whatever. YOU WILL MAKE MISTAKES. THEY MADE MISTAKES.
And then they made the stupid decision to. believe that discrediting rich farmers with experience in China when they shoild have listened to some of their advice when it xame to growing and storing certain grains and livestocks. (YES the CHinese were stupid and humans just like you and I)
They DID learn from those mistakes. There was never anither recorded famine in the USSR after 1932.(well TECHNICALLY there was a famine when the nazis invaded BUT that was cause there were like 10 million nazi soldiers burning land and killing livestock accross western USSR. but ya you get my point). And there was never another recorded famine in CHina until Dengism became more popular.
Farmer knowledge and know how wasn’t embargoed by the West. Lysenko and Mao were just idiots who didn’t listen to experts despite warnings. Also, people already knew about genetic inheritance long before the 20th century, even if DNA wasn’t discovered yet. You are just white washing the truth.
Yes, argicultural technology was absolutely embargoed from China by the West. What world do you live in? The Foreign Assets Control Act was relatively comprehensive and then a year later the “UN” adopted a total collective embargo.
It wasn’t embargoed from the USSR. But that was before the Green Revolution anyway. Everyone in the world was heavily subject to crop failures, like the 50% crop failure in the US Dust Bowl in the 30s. It’s not like there was a known good recipe to solving famine cycles during the first 2 decades of the Russian revolution.
The idea that Mao was an idiot is neither borne by the evidence nor useful as an explanation. He was clearly effective for long periods of time for highly complex problem spaces. But he made a similar class of mistakes to the mistakes that the USSR did in agriculture. Mistakes that they eventually corrected.
Oh embargo, the usual scapegoat for the inherent failure of tankie policies. The collectivisation which removed experienced farmers to work on lands, along with Lysenko’s deliberate ignoring of established agricultural science in exchange to his whatever supposedly science he conjured up with, led to the worst famine since the Irish Famine. Mao was told not to order to kill sparrows because they hunt rats and locusts, pests that have worse effect on agriculture.
Both the Holodomor and Chinese famine were caused by politicians that ignore actual agrarian science from actual farmers with actual farming experience. The bad yield was caused precisely by this ignoring of proven science. And the Holodomor had been especially bad for Ukraine because it was the USSR’s bread basket because the Soviet authorities extracted as much food as possible, mirroring the Great Famine in Ireland when the British imperialists exported food from Ireland despite the massive starvation.
The Chinese failure of agriculture was under embargo from the West’s proven science and supply chains. They were forced to come up with their own solutions from scratch from a starting position that was far far behind the rest of the world.
Lysenko was operating in a world where the West had developed the theory of the gene but not yet proven the gene existed and the West immediately developed it into eugenics from its racist tyrannical fascist politics, and Lysenko and the politicians were reacting to that. While Europeans were going around saying “genetics is real therefore we should kill all the poors and the browns before they taint our bloodline”, the Soviets were saying “if we improve social conditions then people will heal for generations to come”.
I know we are literally awash in comic book level propaganda where the evil Soviets were dastardly lying to everyone for power and control, but if you actually read the history, the narratives we have been fed start to look a lot like outright lies.
100% if they had followed the science they would have done better, but science is not apolitical, research on heredity especially so, and without any molecular basis for the theory of genetics, it looks a lot like master race politics.
THANK YOU!
Chinese people and Slavic peoole arent geniuses even when they work together collectively. They make stupid decisions just like you and me and other Westerners do too. Honestly being a genius is like a 1 in a milloon thing whether youre a westerner , Chinese, Slavic or whatever. YOU WILL MAKE MISTAKES. THEY MADE MISTAKES.
They made the stupid decisions to not save food from the Ukraine and to not expect a drought in the Ukraine in 1932
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kaaYvauNho&pp=ygUVaG9sb2RvbW9yIGJhZGVtcGFuYWRh, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L3d0GJlzgc&pp=ygUVaG9sb2RvbW9yIGJhZGVtcGFuYWRh , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu5-tqHHtaM&pp=ygUjVGhlIHNvdmlldCBmYW1pbmUgbWFyeGlzb (YES the Soviets were stupid and human just like you and I)
And then they made the stupid decision to. believe that discrediting rich farmers with experience in China when they shoild have listened to some of their advice when it xame to growing and storing certain grains and livestocks. (YES the CHinese were stupid and humans just like you and I)
They DID learn from those mistakes. There was never anither recorded famine in the USSR after 1932.(well TECHNICALLY there was a famine when the nazis invaded BUT that was cause there were like 10 million nazi soldiers burning land and killing livestock accross western USSR. but ya you get my point). And there was never another recorded famine in CHina until Dengism became more popular.
In fact Dengism is a form of capitalism and the BNPL statistics prove this. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GCf1obSZ334&pp=ygUPYnVyeWluZyBkZW5naXNt
Farmer knowledge and know how wasn’t embargoed by the West. Lysenko and Mao were just idiots who didn’t listen to experts despite warnings. Also, people already knew about genetic inheritance long before the 20th century, even if DNA wasn’t discovered yet. You are just white washing the truth.
Least obvious and prepared tankie shill answer.
Yes, argicultural technology was absolutely embargoed from China by the West. What world do you live in? The Foreign Assets Control Act was relatively comprehensive and then a year later the “UN” adopted a total collective embargo.
It wasn’t embargoed from the USSR. But that was before the Green Revolution anyway. Everyone in the world was heavily subject to crop failures, like the 50% crop failure in the US Dust Bowl in the 30s. It’s not like there was a known good recipe to solving famine cycles during the first 2 decades of the Russian revolution.
The idea that Mao was an idiot is neither borne by the evidence nor useful as an explanation. He was clearly effective for long periods of time for highly complex problem spaces. But he made a similar class of mistakes to the mistakes that the USSR did in agriculture. Mistakes that they eventually corrected.
Oh embargo, the usual scapegoat for the inherent failure of tankie policies. The collectivisation which removed experienced farmers to work on lands, along with Lysenko’s deliberate ignoring of established agricultural science in exchange to his whatever supposedly science he conjured up with, led to the worst famine since the Irish Famine. Mao was told not to order to kill sparrows because they hunt rats and locusts, pests that have worse effect on agriculture.
Least obvious PR tankie answer.