- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
[green, speaking, looking smug]
Okay, hear me out, here’s the plan…
We go full apathy, basically we let capitalism fully spiral out into fascism. Once it’s done, people will rise up and the system will collapse under its own weight. From its ashes, with our help, a better society will rise. This is how we win.
[we now see that green is tied up in front of a bleak wall, along with a group of other people, being aimed at by a firing squad of characters in fascist uniforms]
[green, smiling] OK?
[blue, pissed] Dude…
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Potentially at the expense of all non-microbial life.
I don’t think that’s on the cards. Non-microbial life has survived 70% of the planet’s forests going up in flames as a consequence of a massive asteroid impact, and the ensuing years or possibly decade+ of planet-wide ash and dust clouds blocking out the sun. And that was just the latest mass extinction event.
You’re giving humanity far too much credit by assuming we’d be capable of anything comparable right now.
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The problem is capitalism. Don’t make it about humans as a species when there are countless counter examples we can learn from
The Soviets were shit on environmentalism for a long time. We didn’t see a serious environmental movement in China until the early 2000s. We’ve never really seen one in the USSR, prior to its collapse.
The alternative to Capitalism is not necessarily whatever the fuck the Soviets’ idea of Communism was.
“Capitalism caused all these ecological problems”
“Okay what about the same problems occurring outside of a capitalist framework”
“Those don’t count”
Shrug
You’ve got to move beyond the ideological and address the material. Ecological harm isn’t predicated on privatized profit.
“I’m sick, my covid test is positive. I’m staying at home.”
“Actually, noro virus has similar symptoms. The problem isn’t covid.”
Shrug
“COVID is the problem”
“I’ve got norovirus”
“That doesn’t matter”
True. That’s not what I had in mind when I talked about alternatives.
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True, just look at what they are finding out about ancient South American society in the Amazon. Apparently, at one point humans nearly wiped out most of the Amazon rainforest to have gigantic, almost New York sized metropolitan cities.
The problem is about greed and corruption. Communism doesn’t fix that.
And a culture that reinforces it.
If you are talking about Bolshevism, I agree.
I mean if you hate yourself that much there’s other options than trying to take us out with you
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Even parasites are important to the environment. Also, if you wanna be dragged down to hell, don’t pull us with you.
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Humans are the exception precisely because they can see the axe falling and move out of the way.
Outside of the fossil fuel dominated US/Saudi sphere, we’ve seen an enormous collaborated effort to curb greenhouse gases. Not everyone is ignoring the risks and consequences.
What we have the capitalist West is a conscious choice between short term profit and long term survival.
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I mean, “too late” for what is always the question. Folks keep insisting The Apocalypse is next month. And then it doesn’t come, and we get a wave of “I guess nothing actually ever happens” during a new record heat wave.
The world is a big place. It’s not clear what “falling apart” is even supposed to look like.
I’m seeing people predicting a 4% drop in population because of a particularly harsh El Nino this year. I’ve been hearing about a looming economic crash that’s at least ten years overdue.
At the scope of a human life, all of this is still very gradual change. You’re going to be living in the middle of it and not realize how much has changed because you never knew subzero weather in St. Louis or glaciers in Montana were normal.
The talk is of some kind of sharp sudden drop, and not the further churn of a 30,000 year old global extinction event.
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There’s pretty much no evidence we will wipe ourselves “out” through climate change.
Really really fuck ourselves over? Sure. But it’s not going to kill literally everyone.
We have to figure out how to live together with the planet one way or another, and one day.
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I’m fine with the logic of a species going extinct because they destroyed their own ecosystem, but intentionally accelerating that process is what I can only describe as evil. It’s doing massive harm for no benefit. It won’t save the planet’s current inhabitants from further damage; the real motivation is genocide against humans.
Trump has done more to curb emissions with the closing of Hormuz than the last five presidents combined.
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Also, petrochemicals are a requirement for any sort of transition to alternatives. Humanity has been binging for nearly two centuries on free energy through hard oil dependence.
If we don’t tirate off of that the shock will (functionally) kill us. The thought that halting that consumption will solve everything is like an extreme alcoholic thinking quitting cold turkey will work.
Only if you consider that the world revolves around humans.
That’s iike living in a house that is falling apart and saying if I just let it fall apart completely then I won’t need to fix the house
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And then we’ll just rebuild!
…on top of the pile of debris that was a home…and lacking assets.