How do you run centralised production without some form of central oversight? How do you decide which commune gets the power plant or local food distribution hub.
You don’t have centralised production or centralised oversight, you have distributed systems and mutual aid.
How do you decide? Some far away central body knows best for the needs of the local people despite never being there? Are those deemed less important to suffer because statistics dictate someone else gets the goods.
Doesn’t have to be one person, it can be the majority workers in a centralised production system deciding to stop exporting something to a certain region because they don’t like them for whatever reason.
Anarchism is what the world had before we started forming governments. If anarchism is a good and viable means of self-governing, why is it not adopted in countries across the globe? Why is there so much history of structured society overcoming anarchy? Where are all the utopian anarchist societies today?
My point is you will end up in situations where one town or city might a nuclear reactor which powers the whole region. So then you end up with inbalances of power between locally controlled production.
A nuclear power plant would need consumers as much as it needs engineers. Any place that builds it would be dependent on other communes to balance the load.
Why would it need consumers? It can function fine without unless you are describing a capitalist economy. No need to balance the load either one nuclear power plant can sustain the region where all the power plant workers live with electricity.
Exactly, and to balance the load you need someone consuming the generated power. Which in case of a nuclear plant needs a lot of people, otherwise you’ve just wasted a ton of resources, time and space on a Stalker cosplay set
No need to balance the load
I don’t think you know anything about how electricity and power grids work. Unless we invent superbatteries that are several orders of magnitude more efficient than current ones, you need to balance the load if you want to actually use the power plant that you built.
Oh yea. Things will get very HOT, very QUICK if you don’t balance that load, especially with how much output nuclear has. Even if you’re just trying to shed the excess and waste it, you have to be able to discharge it fast enough.
And it’s just more mutually beneficial to share that power with others.
Maybe energy is not a good representation of the point i’m trying to make.
Take steel production for instance, in my country there is 1 steel mill that supplies the whole country and partially surrounding countries. This gives the group controlling that factory power, these central power structures will exist even in anarchist societies and whenever i bring this up it just gets handwaved away like it will be fine mutual interest, everyone will be nice end of story.
But i think there will still be friction and collectives not getting along even in a classless society, especially right at the advent coming out of capitalism.
Well if your town has a steel mill and nothing else, why would you be an asshole and withhold your products from everyone else if you need to get other stuff elsewhere? Your scenario is only realistic if one commune somehow perfectly lucks out into eternal self-sufficiency.
Because some regions have almost no important export, so if the town containing the steel mill thinks they deserve better infrastructure, hospitals, etc, than other towns but aren’t getting it, this can cause animosity to grow causing them to demand more services or decrease/stop exporting metal.
Seems like something that could feasibly happen when you have power imbalances that come with centralised production. We have to contemplate these issues even in a classless society.
We need some baseload electricity production to support renewables doesn’t have to be nuclear, could be storing energy by filling a dammed lake or something along those lines.
You build a community that cares and values each other, a society of trust. I can already hear your thoughts, “oh vey how does anyone get rich off that?”
If you build a classless organisation of production i think that will drastically reduce tension in society from a lack of class war and allow for development of community, however we shouldn’t be utopian and pretend like no friction between people will exist, it won’t all be all trust and care.
How do you run centralised production without some form of central oversight? How do you decide which commune gets the power plant or local food distribution hub.
You don’t have centralised production or centralised oversight, you have distributed systems and mutual aid.
How do you decide? Some far away central body knows best for the needs of the local people despite never being there? Are those deemed less important to suffer because statistics dictate someone else gets the goods.
Can all production be practically done in a distributed manner?
Plenty of industry works best at scale-- you’re not going to build neighbourhood-scale high-performance steel mills or semiconductor fabs.
Centralised production is the only option in some forms of production, is every town going to have it’s own steel mill or power plant?
See the mutual aid part? That means peoples can work together for larger scale needs.
People are capable of voluntarily working together to create complex things without being ordered at gunpoint.
Yes sure, but there will be centralised production and because of that implicitly a form of centralised power.
Not how it works buddy.
Can’t have power if everyone leaves a worksite due to some wannabe despot. Being distributed allows flexibility and choice.
And when there is no state apparatus to force people to be beholden to power, there is no power to stop them.
Doesn’t have to be one person, it can be the majority workers in a centralised production system deciding to stop exporting something to a certain region because they don’t like them for whatever reason.
If a group of anarchists don’t want to associate with others, that’s their choice.
Sounds like a clustefuck, how do you organise internation production like that?
Anarchism is what the world had before we started forming governments. If anarchism is a good and viable means of self-governing, why is it not adopted in countries across the globe? Why is there so much history of structured society overcoming anarchy? Where are all the utopian anarchist societies today?
Destroyed by people that like hoarding power, be it capitalist or self-proclaimed “communist”.
What you’re calling “overcoming” is actually “backstabbing” once anarchists are no longer needed.
But it’ll work this time, right?
Sure, we just need to guillotine all the people who refuse to give up their authority
Frequently asked questions about anarchism:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq-full
Why should power and food distribution be restricted to only one commune in the first place?
My point is you will end up in situations where one town or city might a nuclear reactor which powers the whole region. So then you end up with inbalances of power between locally controlled production.
A nuclear power plant would need consumers as much as it needs engineers. Any place that builds it would be dependent on other communes to balance the load.
Why would it need consumers? It can function fine without unless you are describing a capitalist economy. No need to balance the load either one nuclear power plant can sustain the region where all the power plant workers live with electricity.
Exactly, and to balance the load you need someone consuming the generated power. Which in case of a nuclear plant needs a lot of people, otherwise you’ve just wasted a ton of resources, time and space on a Stalker cosplay set
I don’t think you know anything about how electricity and power grids work. Unless we invent superbatteries that are several orders of magnitude more efficient than current ones, you need to balance the load if you want to actually use the power plant that you built.
Oh yea. Things will get very HOT, very QUICK if you don’t balance that load, especially with how much output nuclear has. Even if you’re just trying to shed the excess and waste it, you have to be able to discharge it fast enough.
And it’s just more mutually beneficial to share that power with others.
Maybe energy is not a good representation of the point i’m trying to make.
Take steel production for instance, in my country there is 1 steel mill that supplies the whole country and partially surrounding countries. This gives the group controlling that factory power, these central power structures will exist even in anarchist societies and whenever i bring this up it just gets handwaved away like it will be fine mutual interest, everyone will be nice end of story.
But i think there will still be friction and collectives not getting along even in a classless society, especially right at the advent coming out of capitalism.
Well if your town has a steel mill and nothing else, why would you be an asshole and withhold your products from everyone else if you need to get other stuff elsewhere? Your scenario is only realistic if one commune somehow perfectly lucks out into eternal self-sufficiency.
Because some regions have almost no important export, so if the town containing the steel mill thinks they deserve better infrastructure, hospitals, etc, than other towns but aren’t getting it, this can cause animosity to grow causing them to demand more services or decrease/stop exporting metal.
Seems like something that could feasibly happen when you have power imbalances that come with centralised production. We have to contemplate these issues even in a classless society.
Sorry if this is a tangent, but do we really need nuclear? Solar can be extremely decentralized.
We need some baseload electricity production to support renewables doesn’t have to be nuclear, could be storing energy by filling a dammed lake or something along those lines.
You build a community that cares and values each other, a society of trust. I can already hear your thoughts, “oh vey how does anyone get rich off that?”
“Oh vey” is a weird typo, especially in conjunction with calling a Jewish guy a parasite
Whats your point?
If you build a classless organisation of production i think that will drastically reduce tension in society from a lack of class war and allow for development of community, however we shouldn’t be utopian and pretend like no friction between people will exist, it won’t all be all trust and care.