they want to provoke violent confrontation, and are likely supporting those who are contributing here advocating for violent reaction. Don’t fall into the trap and they will not have any excuses or justification for escalation.
To be clear: reacting with violence will allow them to justify their escalation of violence, which is exactly what they want.
Dude, they are already shooting and killing peaceful protesters. What does escalation even mean in that context? They’ll shoot and kill even more people? When someone is shooting at you, self defense is allowed.
Well, clearly the only viable alternative is a civil war with thousands of dead. Because clearly nothing has changed in the Democratic camp, since - as we know - Marry Sheffield, Michelle Wu, and Zohran Mamdani are all, famously, in the capitalist pockets of Big Business, right?
Those are all mayors. With the exception of Zohran, by virtue of how massive NYC is, none have the ability to meaningfully influence federal politics. Your counterpoint just proves it’s the Democrats functioning as the graveyard of leftist movements as they were designed to be. They have to allow meaningless wins to frustrate momentum.
After decades of capitalists being elected, finally some of the most socialist people in the history of US win, and you’re like “nah, nothing of importance has changed”.
Come on, bruv!
Also, calling the mayor of NY a “meaningless win” is certainly a vibe…
Zohran has already condemned the righteous Palestinian resistance and caved to pressure from the national security state in having the NYPD Commissioner report to him directly instead of a subordinate.
My hope for Zohran is that he moderately decreases the cost of living for the people of New York. I don’t expect a socialist revolution, though I’m ready and hopeful to be proven wrong.
Am I wrong that they have no meaningful influence over federal politics?
Zohran has already condemned the righteous Palestinian resistance
You’re confused, I think? He condemned and revoked some pro-Israeli decrees.
caved to pressure from the national security state in having the NYPD Commissioner report to him directly instead of a subordinate
Are you a bot? This sentence makes no sense. Even ignoring the fact that the NYPD Commissioner is a civilian who is appointed by and reports to the mayor (and that’s been the case since the 19th century), your sentence seems to suggest that the Commissioner should be reporting to their subordinate? Which is impossible? Unless you mean “Mamdani’s subordinate”, which - again - makes no sense, because the Commissioner is supposed to report to the mayor, and you’d think it’s good that a new, socialist mayor wants to keep close tabs on the famously racist and brutal police force?
Am I wrong that they have no meaningful influence over federal politics?
You’re completely blind to the fact that Americans have - for the first time in recent history - voted for a socialist platform. That’s the change.
You don’t fucking get it. No one listen to this guy.
FEAR OF ESCALATION WILL ONLY BRING MORE ESCALATION.
The “don’t be provoked” thing only works in the old world. The one where rules and laws still exist.
These people are taking over, completely, and they will happily do so over your dead body if that’s what it takes.
They know it, and I’m starting to get the feeling the shooter yesterday had instructions to kill. The fact that the shooter is not in custody is ALL the evidence anyone needs now to fully understand.
For real, people like ghost are more likely plants or bots that are trying to defuse and capture pressure so you don’t do what needs to be done. MAGA lives don’t matter, they have passed the moral event horizon. Do the right thing and defend yourself from our domestic enemies.
I’m starting to get the feeling the shooter yesterday had instructions to kill. The fact that the shooter is not in custody is ALL the evidence anyone needs now to fully understand.
Ah yes, unfounded conspiracy theories, that’s what we need. That’ll surely set us apart from the fascists.
While the part about them being ordered to do it is unfounded, the part where they shoot a bullet and kill an innocent person, then interfere with people trying to save her, then lying about what happened at the highest levels of goverment, then saying we owe the murderer a debt of gratitude… that’s all just objective fact, sweetheart. Draw your own conclusions. 2 + 2 = 5 and all that.
I’m sorry, is somebody here to cite my work? As if it would take me more than 10 seconds to look at your history and find some failures of logical consistency.
No actual comment on the topic? Shocking. Just shocking.
I’m sorry, is somebody here to cite my work? As if it would take me more than 10 seconds to look at your history and find some failures of logical consistency.
Great non sequitor, Captian logical consistency.
Can you describe any sentence that I could have written which would make your comment less conspiratorial or paranoid?
Protestors are coming to these events with no weapons in hand, I think it is perfectly reasonable, given what we’ve seen, for protestors to be carrying guns like the black panthers did. ICE needs to know that thier violence will not go unopposed, the need to SEE that.
Reminder that California has strict gun laws primarily because racist Republicans feared an armed Black Panther march on the state capitol. See: Mulford Act
ICE is dependent on people not being able to fight back. They are bullies, and would be much less likely to engage if they could end up getting three bullets in the face. Power that can be applied to them, is the only thing that a bully would respect.
Right, she didn’t and we get outrage and a chance. If she pulled a gun on ICE then ICE would actually have ammo for their actions. I know how it sounds, but killing peaceful protestors is a very different thing from killing aggressive protestors. Deaths will increase with aggression from our side.
Read up on the nazi occupation of Europe, in many places like the Netherlands where people engaged in peaceful protest after surrender, while the Dutch government started to work with the nazis. Hence they were able to do all their bullshit, such as mass deportations. There’s multiple spaces in the Netherlands that are basically mass graves or memorials because we tried to reason with fucking nazis.
But in other places such as Denmark, people resisted and fought back together with government support despite the occupation, because of this the nazis weren’t able to do most of their shit. Your country is currently infested with nazis who are deporting your people, fight them, don’t reason with them. Sabotage them, refuse them service, boycott companies that provide them with services, make their lives hell, don’t let them shop in your stores, walk on your streets or do anything, it’s the only option.
Because my calculus says civil war is inevitable and better earlier than later as they are actively preparing. They will look to build camps and disarm. It should crack off now.
The longer we wait the stronger their position became.
But please if you have a grandmaster mate worked out let’s hear it.
The country would be brought to its knees if suddenly deprived of profit and labor. That tactic was extremely effective in Chile in 2019, and had they not fallen for the trick of liberal reform, they would’ve had a successful revolution on their hands with virtually no bloodshed.
If you aren’t in a union (or even if you are, it’s worth dual-carding), please consider joining the IWW to unionize your workplace (bonus: you’ll get higher wages, better benefits, and more time off if you succeed!) to strengthen a general strike if we manage to enact one, as most unions have a strike fund that can supplement your income during a general strike to make it more financially bearable (you should also save as much money as you can reasonably do, so it can also be used to keep yourself afloat during a strike).
And for our international friends, you should join one as well, as fascism is gaining momentum globally. If your country isn’t listed below, just contact the IWW directly in the link above, and they’ll help you set up a new local branch.
That’s some top tier delusion. “Fight now”, lol. With handguns? With buckets of paint? Against APCs and drones?
Wake up, man! It’s not the 18th century! The only hope the US has is a crushing midterms victory by the Democrats, then maybe they put these bastards in prison.
If not, it’s going to be blood on the streets, if not flat out a civil war, with thousands dead.
In order for you to understand my counter argument you will need to read War and Peace, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich and the first three Harry Potter novels. Let me know when you’re finished and then I’ll respond.
If people start actually fighting against ICE, as in, with physical violence, Trump will enact martial law and take any remaining restrictions off of his goons.
While I don’t think we should show them our violent side, I would not evoke fears of martial law. Trump wants people to naturally follow the concept of martial law because he does not have the resources or support to enact it. It’s what AOC said; “Do not comply in advance”. Don’t believe any claims that the gestapo “could choose to make things worse”.
Kidnapping sole individuals, even presidents, turns out to not require quite as many resources as you’d think. They focus on these sole moments of fear because they don’t have the means to accomplish the pervasive military occupation they want. Hence very poorly directed National Guard deployments where the guard is puttering around unsure what’s expected of them (because Trump is afraid to say the quiet part out loud: Beat citizens)
they want to provoke violent confrontation, and are likely supporting those who are contributing here advocating for violent reaction. Don’t fall into the trap and they will not have any excuses or justification for escalation.
To be clear: reacting with violence will allow them to justify their escalation of violence, which is exactly what they want.
this is chess, not checkers.
Dude, they are already shooting and killing peaceful protesters. What does escalation even mean in that context? They’ll shoot and kill even more people? When someone is shooting at you, self defense is allowed.
They are already murdering people…
Yea I remember when in school if you dont react to aggressive scumbag beating you he will stop bullying you. Works all the time
they’re going to do the violence anyways, and they’ll make up excuses
woman trying to drive her car away from them? shoot her in the face
👆 listening to this fool will get you and your loved ones killed
I advocate for violence all the time. That’s because I hate them.
I think it’s silly to prolong this. They are doing damage by the day.
Yeah, you guys should just speedrun to “martial law and no midterm elections”, that would make everything better.
They don’t need actual violence to declare martial law and suspend elections. They can just lie.
They don’t lie, just the other day they found Sadam’s WMDs.
Oh no, we might not get the chance to vote in Democrats so they can…
checks notes
write a strongly worded letter then send another $2 billion to Israel!
Well, clearly the only viable alternative is a civil war with thousands of dead. Because clearly nothing has changed in the Democratic camp, since - as we know - Marry Sheffield, Michelle Wu, and Zohran Mamdani are all, famously, in the capitalist pockets of Big Business, right?
Those are all mayors. With the exception of Zohran, by virtue of how massive NYC is, none have the ability to meaningfully influence federal politics. Your counterpoint just proves it’s the Democrats functioning as the graveyard of leftist movements as they were designed to be. They have to allow meaningless wins to frustrate momentum.
Fuck me, you can’t be serious…
After decades of capitalists being elected, finally some of the most socialist people in the history of US win, and you’re like “nah, nothing of importance has changed”.
Come on, bruv!
Also, calling the mayor of NY a “meaningless win” is certainly a vibe…
Zohran has already condemned the righteous Palestinian resistance and caved to pressure from the national security state in having the NYPD Commissioner report to him directly instead of a subordinate.
My hope for Zohran is that he moderately decreases the cost of living for the people of New York. I don’t expect a socialist revolution, though I’m ready and hopeful to be proven wrong.
Am I wrong that they have no meaningful influence over federal politics?
You’re confused, I think? He condemned and revoked some pro-Israeli decrees.
Are you a bot? This sentence makes no sense. Even ignoring the fact that the NYPD Commissioner is a civilian who is appointed by and reports to the mayor (and that’s been the case since the 19th century), your sentence seems to suggest that the Commissioner should be reporting to their subordinate? Which is impossible? Unless you mean “Mamdani’s subordinate”, which - again - makes no sense, because the Commissioner is supposed to report to the mayor, and you’d think it’s good that a new, socialist mayor wants to keep close tabs on the famously racist and brutal police force?
You’re completely blind to the fact that Americans have - for the first time in recent history - voted for a socialist platform. That’s the change.
You don’t fucking get it. No one listen to this guy.
FEAR OF ESCALATION WILL ONLY BRING MORE ESCALATION.
The “don’t be provoked” thing only works in the old world. The one where rules and laws still exist.
These people are taking over, completely, and they will happily do so over your dead body if that’s what it takes.
They know it, and I’m starting to get the feeling the shooter yesterday had instructions to kill. The fact that the shooter is not in custody is ALL the evidence anyone needs now to fully understand.
Good luck to all.
For real, people like ghost are more likely plants or bots that are trying to defuse and capture pressure so you don’t do what needs to be done. MAGA lives don’t matter, they have passed the moral event horizon. Do the right thing and defend yourself from our domestic enemies.
Ah yes, unfounded conspiracy theories, that’s what we need. That’ll surely set us apart from the fascists.
While the part about them being ordered to do it is unfounded, the part where they shoot a bullet and kill an innocent person, then interfere with people trying to save her, then lying about what happened at the highest levels of goverment, then saying we owe the murderer a debt of gratitude… that’s all just objective fact, sweetheart. Draw your own conclusions. 2 + 2 = 5 and all that.
Yeah, that’s the part I’m talking about.
Openly sharing your paranoid conspiratorial thinking doesn’t exactly give you a huge about of credibility.
I’m sorry, is somebody here to cite my work? As if it would take me more than 10 seconds to look at your history and find some failures of logical consistency.
No actual comment on the topic? Shocking. Just shocking.
Great non sequitor, Captian logical consistency.
Can you describe any sentence that I could have written which would make your comment less conspiratorial or paranoid?
Here’s a sentence you can try uttering:
“No way the Portland shootings are in any way connected to the Minneapolis shooting. Pure coincidence.”
Good job, you beat up that mean ole fascist strawman that you’ve created out of thin air.
Any other positions that you want to imagine me having? Maybe pretend I’m a zionist, I’m sure you’ll do a great job against that one too.
Let me know if you need any more ideas for your fantasy world.
Protestors are coming to these events with no weapons in hand, I think it is perfectly reasonable, given what we’ve seen, for protestors to be carrying guns like the black panthers did. ICE needs to know that thier violence will not go unopposed, the need to SEE that.
Reminder that California has strict gun laws primarily because racist Republicans feared an armed Black Panther march on the state capitol. See: Mulford Act
Renee didn’t escalate, and see what that got her?
ICE is dependent on people not being able to fight back. They are bullies, and would be much less likely to engage if they could end up getting three bullets in the face. Power that can be applied to them, is the only thing that a bully would respect.
Right, she didn’t and we get outrage and a chance. If she pulled a gun on ICE then ICE would actually have ammo for their actions. I know how it sounds, but killing peaceful protestors is a very different thing from killing aggressive protestors. Deaths will increase with aggression from our side.
Read up on the nazi occupation of Europe, in many places like the Netherlands where people engaged in peaceful protest after surrender, while the Dutch government started to work with the nazis. Hence they were able to do all their bullshit, such as mass deportations. There’s multiple spaces in the Netherlands that are basically mass graves or memorials because we tried to reason with fucking nazis.
But in other places such as Denmark, people resisted and fought back together with government support despite the occupation, because of this the nazis weren’t able to do most of their shit. Your country is currently infested with nazis who are deporting your people, fight them, don’t reason with them. Sabotage them, refuse them service, boycott companies that provide them with services, make their lives hell, don’t let them shop in your stores, walk on your streets or do anything, it’s the only option.
Right, placating Hitler instead of confronting him went great historically.
If it was chess, Trump wouldn’t be winning. This is far from chess, it’s the jungle.
Okay can you share our next moves?
Because my calculus says civil war is inevitable and better earlier than later as they are actively preparing. They will look to build camps and disarm. It should crack off now.
The longer we wait the stronger their position became.
But please if you have a grandmaster mate worked out let’s hear it.
The most effective non-violent action we can take is joining local mutual aid groups, reading Full Spectrum Resistance for more details, and ultimately preparing and organizing for a General Strike.
The country would be brought to its knees if suddenly deprived of profit and labor. That tactic was extremely effective in Chile in 2019, and had they not fallen for the trick of liberal reform, they would’ve had a successful revolution on their hands with virtually no bloodshed.
If you aren’t in a union (or even if you are, it’s worth dual-carding), please consider joining the IWW to unionize your workplace (bonus: you’ll get higher wages, better benefits, and more time off if you succeed!) to strengthen a general strike if we manage to enact one, as most unions have a strike fund that can supplement your income during a general strike to make it more financially bearable (you should also save as much money as you can reasonably do, so it can also be used to keep yourself afloat during a strike).
And for our international friends, you should join one as well, as fascism is gaining momentum globally. If your country isn’t listed below, just contact the IWW directly in the link above, and they’ll help you set up a new local branch.
Meanwhile they murder and deport people.
Keep playing chess and you won’t have anyone else to play with.
Bullies need to be punched in the face.
The bullies will have tanks and APCs when Trump enacts martial law if ICE is under attack.
Then so be it. It would have been that at the start, and it will be that now.
What are people waiting for, the US military to spontaneously combust?
Fight now, or fight harder later. Those are your options unless you plan to run. Understand that.
That’s some top tier delusion. “Fight now”, lol. With handguns? With buckets of paint? Against APCs and drones?
Wake up, man! It’s not the 18th century! The only hope the US has is a crushing midterms victory by the Democrats, then maybe they put these bastards in prison.
If not, it’s going to be blood on the streets, if not flat out a civil war, with thousands dead.
Foreign interference account.
No one believes legitimate midterm elections are happening. Or that if they happen, the results will be accepted by MAGA. No one.
Anyone pushing for “we must crush them in the elections” is either willfully pushing a false narrative, or a complete fucking moron.
Yes, what idiots.
Who strives to live in a democracy? That’s so 1900s.
What we really need is faceless anonymous strangers telling other people to commit violence. You know, just like the founders intended.
Go watch Andor. You will understand
I’ve seen Andor so I understand your point.
In order for you to understand my counter argument you will need to read War and Peace, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich and the first three Harry Potter novels. Let me know when you’re finished and then I’ll respond.
Exactly what “violence” was Renee Good guilty of?
These gestapo don’t need excuses or justification because they have no responsibility or consequences.
It’s not what OC means.
If people start actually fighting against ICE, as in, with physical violence, Trump will enact martial law and take any remaining restrictions off of his goons.
While I don’t think we should show them our violent side, I would not evoke fears of martial law. Trump wants people to naturally follow the concept of martial law because he does not have the resources or support to enact it. It’s what AOC said; “Do not comply in advance”. Don’t believe any claims that the gestapo “could choose to make things worse”.
Like he didn’t have the resources to push the invasion of Venezuela through Congress?
Kidnapping sole individuals, even presidents, turns out to not require quite as many resources as you’d think. They focus on these sole moments of fear because they don’t have the means to accomplish the pervasive military occupation they want. Hence very poorly directed National Guard deployments where the guard is puttering around unsure what’s expected of them (because Trump is afraid to say the quiet part out loud: Beat citizens)
So fire 6 times instead of 3?
No, bring out the military in tanks and APCs and start gassing, arresting, or killing anybody who’s out on the streets after curfew.
Educate yourself about what totalitarian dictatorships do to protests.