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Cake day: July 1st, 2023

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  • It’s not my repetition that makes it nonsensical, it’s the fact that assets are purchased with already-taxed money. Having to pay the government for the ‘privilege’ of continuing to own what you’ve purchased, in perpetuity, is nonsensical, full stop.

    Tell me you don’t have a damn clue how very large wealth works without telling me you don’t have a damn clue how very large wealth works.

    Capital flight since the ISF wealth tax’s creation in 1988 amounts to ca. €200 billion; The ISF causes an annual fiscal shortfall of €7 billion, or about twice what it yields

    Unfortunately for you, he never could never prove the relation between taxes and wealthy people leaving, making this an interesting paper, but not a consensus, even today.
    In addition, this has mitigations: bind the tax to the citizenship (what the US is already doing for income), and/or apply a 5 years term before you have “escaped” the tax. Again, both considered manageable by economists.

    Your inability to own up to any of your falsehoods makes you pointless to continue engaging with. The statistics are crystal clear—your assertions are demonstrably bunk.

    Not sure if you in denial or bad faith. Doesn’t matter.

    This reply serves only to directly contradict the most obvious additional falsehoods, for others who may read this exchange, before I move on.

    Well, since it starts with you explaining you had no idea what you talked about the whole time, yes, it’s preferable.


  • matlag@sh.itjust.workstoPolitical Memes@lemmy.worldIt's a balance
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    7 days ago

    Again, none of your business, because you’re not the lender.

    Let’s take a practical example: please find a decent DDR5 offer. No way it could have gone up because virtual money bought it all, couldn’t it?

    Idiotic straw man which I will be ignoring.

    If you don’t understand the relation between taxes and their use, yeah: better ignore it, for your sake…

    The principle of taxing people based on the value of what they already own is nonsensical, no matter how much or how little that value is. Objecting to both wealth taxes and property taxes just means I’m not a hypocrite.

    Keep repeating it’s “nonsensical” doesn’t make it nonsensical.

    Taxing based on ‘you could do without it’, especially when the definition of that excess is completely arbitrarily defined, is a horrendous precedent to set. Vibe taxation. Every wealth tax aimed at the ‘ultra-rich’ in other countries in the past has either been repealed outright, or was broadened so that it, surprise surprise, is no longer aimed only at the ultra-rich, and falls into the lap of of the middle class, once again.

    Wrong. France had a wealth tax for decades. It was repealed by current President Macron, who was propped by… a billionaire. A proposal for a ultra-wealth tax (proposal was above 100M$ of wealth) was proposed by an economist in France, and he got support from a bench of Nobel Prize of Economy recipients (among a large support from economy experts).

    Inflation is a thing, so those records will always be broken eventually. It only “makes headlines” to appeal to dullards who don’t understand things like that.

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WFRBLTP1246

    From 2020 to 2025 Q1 to Q1, from 12T$ to 22T$, that’s the equivalent 12.9% per year. “inflation”, sure…

    Based on the failures already witnessed elsewhere in the world, yes. It objectively doesn’t make sense.

    It didn’t fail. Billionaires managed to get rid of it. They use their virtual non-real money to acquire as much news medias they could, so that they could prop their guy all the way up.

    US Life expectancy is at it highest ever in 2025

    Indeed, my bad! It’s a world class winning https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/newsroom/news-releases/increases-us-life-expectancy-forecasted-stall-2050-poorer-health

    Educational attainment is steadily trending upward

    https://www.future-ed.org/what-the-new-pisa-results-really-say-about-u-s-schools/

    Poverty is trending downward

    https://www.cbo.gov/interactive/2025-reconciliation-act


  • matlag@sh.itjust.workstoPolitical Memes@lemmy.worldIt's a balance
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    8 days ago

    Also, it’s entirely possible for some scandal to plummet the value of a stock overnight, such that the value that was used as collateral is now not worth nearly that much. But it is the lender’s prerogative to decide to take that risk, it’s no one’s business other than the lender and the borrower, both private entities.

    1.Sure, I will take your risk assessment over these banks anytime (not). 2.If the value is so unstable it can plummet over night, then it was grossly overestimated initially, back to my previous point.

    Yes, property taxes should not be a thing.

    Neither should roads, schools, garbage collection, police, firefighters, etc, I guess.

    Hypocrisy detection failed, lol.

    You know, it was either hypocrisy or weird cult of the billonaires, as I fail to see why you so much want to protect them from paying any tax…

    You may have an issue understanding the simple phrase “stuff you own”, since you’re here apparently arguing that beyond a certain valuation, assets are no longer assets.

    It’s not “stuff” in the sense no one will come after a house, a car, a yacht, etc. It’s not money they need to survive. You could still tax by hundreds of billions the ultra-rich class at the country level (I assume US here) and neither their lifestyle nor their long term prospective lifestyle would be impacted the slightest. That’s the scale we’re talking about.

    Or alternatively, we can keep saying it’s complicated and/or doesn’t make sense, and you can enjoy record breaking wealths of a few that will make headlines while the life expectation, education level, overall population health keeps going down and poverty keeps going up… until one day, it catches you!



  • It absolutely doesn’t make sense to charge a tax of real/actual money on a value that’s theoretical.

    That “theoretical value” is used as collateral to borrow money for billionaires expenses. Companies can even buy one another through shares exchange. So tell me:

    Why is it theoretical only for taxes purpose, but very real when you talk to a bank?.

    It’s irrational to assume “cheating the system to grossely [sic] exagerate [sic] the value of their companies” of every entity valued at more than an arbitrary $X.

    I didn’t write it was all of them. I’m talking about the AI bubble and IPO scams.

    “The stuff you own is now too valuable, so we get to steal it from you.”

    Is that your opinion on properties taxes? Because that’s something you own, and you pay a tax based on its value. That value is also theoretical, by the way: as long as you don’t sell the house, who knows how much it’s worth?
    And… is that not the most expensive thing you own??

    Or is it stealing only when we talk about billionaires wealth?

    And at this scale, it’s not “stuff you own”. You may have an issue assessing what a billion is. Do you know the difference between a million and a billion? It’s roughly a billion…
    That 20M$ mansion gaining 10% is absolutely peanuts.




  • matlag@sh.itjust.workstoPolitical Memes@lemmy.worldIt's a balance
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    11 days ago

    The poor aren’t poor because the wealthy are wealthy. Like I said, the vast majority of the wealthiest people’s wealth is not cash money, it’s a theoretical price tag going up over time. Over the past hundred years, the number of billionaires per capita has increased 7x, but a hundred years ago, poverty was MUCH more prevalent than it is today.

    The poor are poor because while they’re paid peanuts, everybody else estimates the value they create through their work in very large numbers. It is absolutely a matter of work-value distribution. Calling that “wealth redistribution” is an artifact to prop the “tax is steal” propaganda.

    Tax the companies “theoretical price tag” and see it adjusting to much more realistic numbers, that would be beneficial for everyone.

    Lastly, we can keep saying all we want about one hundred years ago, but at the time, economic growth was 2 digits. Today it’s one digit, and almost all of it value goes straight up to the ultra-rich. Growth is decreasing but ultra-rich worth net keeps increasing at faster rate. How can one not see this is bonkers?


  • matlag@sh.itjust.workstoPolitical Memes@lemmy.worldIt's a balance
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    11 days ago

    The vast majority of the increase in these people’s wealth over time is newly-created; it’s value that literally didn’t exist before, not an amount of cash money taken away from anyone else.

    A wealth tax will go after that, and that will absolutely make sense. They can sell the shares they have in the companies, and that will make them think twice before cheating the system to grossely exagerate the value of their companies.

    And if we talk about start-ups or other special cases where the CEOs can’t sell shares and/or we don’t really know their worth, we can have them give shares as payment. The gov will sit on them until they have actual value and sell them, or relesase them back if said value was lower than estimated at the time.


  • I am pretty sure than between the current model that is slowly but inexorably going towards: “2 kinds of people in the world: trillionaires and people depending on trillionaire’s charity to survive”, and the model decribed above, we can find a middle ground.

    Not so long ago, the ratio between CEOs pay and median worker pay was 20. Today it’s 280. There were successful and motivated CEO at the time.

    The US had a period during which the highest tax bracket was 90%. There were CEO, there were rich folks and there were entrepreneurs.

    Enough with all the “impossible”. The current situation is the anomaly. The current situation is the not sustainable approach. It’s not just the US, neo-liberalism has spread over the decades with the very very very exact same results absolutely everywhere it was tried:

    -impoverished population overall -reduction of services to the population -increased public deficit -ultra-rich getting immensely richer

    Either we keep saying “it’s complicated” and keep course. Its end is already known: a collapse of the economy on itself: there is not enough people left making a decent enough living to buy what is produced, and everything belong to the ultra-rich.
    Or we change course. It’s almost a matter of survival for the poor.