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Cake day: March 22nd, 2025

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  • This is a very reasonable take but I simply don’t think it works like this in US. It’s not “the wheels were turned like that and he revved the engine and so on”. It’s “I looked to me like like she is going to hit me” or “I thought she is going to drag officer X”. It can be obvious from the video that he was wrong but you can’t really prove it didn’t looked like that from his perspective. It’s stupid and it shouldn’t work like that but this is how justice system treats cops in US. Daniel Shaver and Philando Castile are some cases that come to mind. 100% unjustified police murders that got acquitted by a jury because the guy looked behind him in first case or reached for his documents in the second. The standard is extremely low and if the defense can come up with any justification it will most probably work. In this case the justification is stronger than in those two cases. She didn’t follow orders, she was driving when ICE agent reached inside her car and she didn’t stop when the shooter stepped in front of her car. If he gets convicted it will mark huge shift in public perception of law enforcement. It’s possible but it would be unprecedented.




  • This is exactly the legal standard in Minnesota: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.066

    “the decision by a peace officer to use deadly force shall be evaluated from the perspective of a reasonable officer in the same situation, based on the totality of the circumstances known to or perceived by the officer at the time, rather than with the benefit of hindsight, and that the totality of the circumstances shall account for occasions when officers may be forced to make quick judgments about using deadly force”

    The insane cop shooting space alien is some nonsense example. It specifically says that the officer takes decision based on what he “perceives”. Notice that it also mentions “quick judgments” but it doesn’t say anything about training. So a cop doesn’t have to follow any protocol (like don’t get in front of a moving car to stop it) but is basically acting on the spot, based on what he sees and how he interprets it in the moment. This is insanely low legal standard and proving that cop broke this law is pretty much impossible. In this specific case, to get a conviction, you would need 12 partisan jurors that ignore the evidence and convict him in protest, some sort of reverse jury nullification basically.

    And of course I’m not saying that the cop was right here. I think this psycho intentionally put himself in front of the car to kill this women. My point is you can’t prove if he did it intentionally or not and the law doesn’t say that if he does something stupid the shooting is not justified. And yes, we can spend hours arguing if it’s reasonable to think this car would run him over and if this goes to court that’s what they will do there. I think, based on many other cases of police shootings that went to court, that there’s 0% chance jury will agree it was not reasonable and convict him.





  • Ok, forget about the car. Take the shooting of Daniel Shaver. There was a body cam footage and he was shot while crawling on his arms and knees on the floor, unarmed. He was shoot because he got confused by conflicting orders shouted a him by two cops and for a second looked behind him. The cop was found not guilty by the jury. Philando Castile was shot when reaching for his documents after he was told by the cop to get his documents - acquitted by the jury. Yes, in some cases when the shooting is absolutely out of this world outrageous the cop will get convicted. If there’s a tiniest sliver of justification (he was holding a sandwich, he reached for something, she moved) it’s pretty much impossible to convict a cop in US. In this case there’s way more than enough to acquit the ICE agent.


  • That’s not as important distinction as you think. The important part is that it’s based on the perception of the officer, not on actual situation. You can’t say that because when looking at the video it doesn’t look like he was in danger so the shooting was not justified. If he claims that from his perspective it looked like he was in danger it will be pretty much impossible to prove it was unreasonable. The moves to goalpost so high cops are only convicted when the shoot someone sitting on a couch eating ice cream or lying on the ground not moving and even then it’s not guaranteed. I





  • I mean yeah, it’s not that he’s innocent, it’s more that it would be impossible to prove he’s guilty because to prove that you would have to somehow show what he was thinking in that specific moment. It’s no just some justification. It’s how the law is constructed. In a normal country you would require police to act with accordance to their training and if they panic and fuck up they are responsible. In US if a cop fucks up it’s ok, it’s not his fault.

    And people are downvoting because they don’t like the law, not because they don’t like my comment. Each downvote is tiny protest against police brutality in US. Keep them coming!