And why did they get active? Because things got bad enough it affected their life personally, circumstances provoked it, not their wisdom, or foresight, or morals or good ideas. Where were they while things were getting here? Change happens when circumstances provoked it, not when an organizer tries to explain why they should care and act. They aren’t waking up, they’re suffering. As soon as they are soothed and safe, they’ll go right back to being part of problem. And if they’re intimidated or frightened, they’ll cower and hide, betraying the movement.
Sometimes, but not always. Many people were radicalized by Gaza, others were radicalized by Trump threatening to invade Greenland, others still by local stories and events. I know from my colleagues in the US that ICE in MN radicalized many people, too. Most of our new members actually weren’t personally affected, unless you count seeing TikToks of atrocities as being affected.
Look, I understand where you’re coming from, I’ve been in this fight since I was 17, and I know how it has felt like swimming against the tide for a long time, but I am categorically telling you that things are actually finally changing. You can be a part of it, or not, but please can you just stop trying to discourage others from doing something to help?
And I’m telling you it’s an illusion. It’s a temporary change in behavior by a small number of people who were personally affected, either by their own emotional outrage over a circumstance or because the American Gestapo was shooting civilians in their city where they live. Once the threat is out of sight, their eagerness will fade, despite the wisdom you probably preach about vigilance and keeping up the momentum, however right you are. People don’t act because of the wisdom of a distant thing, they act when they are personally affected. Masses of people acting that is necessary for real change only occurs at critical moments when mobs form. I can not give you a single example of masses of people acting when it is wise rather than when it is desperate. Can you? If you can’t find those moments in history, perhaps you need to rethink your strategy for change to align with how people actually behave and not how it would beneficial for them to behave. What ever convinced you that your strategy is good? How many organizers and unions have utterly failed because people failed to stay engaged and committed? Business knows this, governments know this, they use it to break and prevent opposition all the time, they’re very good at it.
I present you with my actual lived experiences and you are just like “Actually, no, despite the fact I am not involved in activist efforts, somehow I know all about them, and I am gonna tell you how to run a movement I want no part of”. Brother, do you work for the CIA, or what?
You present me with an interpretation of reality based in your subjective experiences and it doesn’t fit with my own understanding. Why should I simply believe you over others? The stories of your life are just one set amongst many, many others. Why should yours carry so much weight that it tips the scale against recorded history?
Ask yourself, when have you seen the most engagement and when have you seen the least? Why is there such a difference even if the issues are equally important?
You have openly stated that you aren’t engaged in activist activities, whereas I am. I actually have real, recent experiences, you do not. This isn’t people with two experiences disagreeing, this is just you refusing to accept that your “vibes” are off, because you are emotionally invested in being right.
I’m done with you for now, nobody else is reading this shit. See you next time. Hope you get paid well for doing this.
I never stated that. My position is not vibes, as you so conveniently put it. It’s a simple reading of history, a life of watching movement fail to form and people act against their interests for toys and treats, again and again. The only one emotionally invested is you, in the idea that doing the same thing that has failed for decades will somehow work this time.
Nobody else is reading this? Are you only interested to discuss topics if there’s an audience? Do you like being the center of attention? Maybe that’s why you’re so devoted to organizing…
And why did they get active? Because things got bad enough it affected their life personally, circumstances provoked it, not their wisdom, or foresight, or morals or good ideas. Where were they while things were getting here? Change happens when circumstances provoked it, not when an organizer tries to explain why they should care and act. They aren’t waking up, they’re suffering. As soon as they are soothed and safe, they’ll go right back to being part of problem. And if they’re intimidated or frightened, they’ll cower and hide, betraying the movement.
Sometimes, but not always. Many people were radicalized by Gaza, others were radicalized by Trump threatening to invade Greenland, others still by local stories and events. I know from my colleagues in the US that ICE in MN radicalized many people, too. Most of our new members actually weren’t personally affected, unless you count seeing TikToks of atrocities as being affected.
Look, I understand where you’re coming from, I’ve been in this fight since I was 17, and I know how it has felt like swimming against the tide for a long time, but I am categorically telling you that things are actually finally changing. You can be a part of it, or not, but please can you just stop trying to discourage others from doing something to help?
And I’m telling you it’s an illusion. It’s a temporary change in behavior by a small number of people who were personally affected, either by their own emotional outrage over a circumstance or because the American Gestapo was shooting civilians in their city where they live. Once the threat is out of sight, their eagerness will fade, despite the wisdom you probably preach about vigilance and keeping up the momentum, however right you are. People don’t act because of the wisdom of a distant thing, they act when they are personally affected. Masses of people acting that is necessary for real change only occurs at critical moments when mobs form. I can not give you a single example of masses of people acting when it is wise rather than when it is desperate. Can you? If you can’t find those moments in history, perhaps you need to rethink your strategy for change to align with how people actually behave and not how it would beneficial for them to behave. What ever convinced you that your strategy is good? How many organizers and unions have utterly failed because people failed to stay engaged and committed? Business knows this, governments know this, they use it to break and prevent opposition all the time, they’re very good at it.
I present you with my actual lived experiences and you are just like “Actually, no, despite the fact I am not involved in activist efforts, somehow I know all about them, and I am gonna tell you how to run a movement I want no part of”. Brother, do you work for the CIA, or what?
You present me with an interpretation of reality based in your subjective experiences and it doesn’t fit with my own understanding. Why should I simply believe you over others? The stories of your life are just one set amongst many, many others. Why should yours carry so much weight that it tips the scale against recorded history?
Ask yourself, when have you seen the most engagement and when have you seen the least? Why is there such a difference even if the issues are equally important?
You have openly stated that you aren’t engaged in activist activities, whereas I am. I actually have real, recent experiences, you do not. This isn’t people with two experiences disagreeing, this is just you refusing to accept that your “vibes” are off, because you are emotionally invested in being right.
I’m done with you for now, nobody else is reading this shit. See you next time. Hope you get paid well for doing this.
I never stated that. My position is not vibes, as you so conveniently put it. It’s a simple reading of history, a life of watching movement fail to form and people act against their interests for toys and treats, again and again. The only one emotionally invested is you, in the idea that doing the same thing that has failed for decades will somehow work this time.
Nobody else is reading this? Are you only interested to discuss topics if there’s an audience? Do you like being the center of attention? Maybe that’s why you’re so devoted to organizing…