You do realize that the powers of the president have been growing for some time now? That the militarization of the police took several decades? That the US has been involved in forever wars under both parties? That the working class has been on the decline for 50 years?
Just ask yourself: why would Biden increase the ICE budget after the first Trump presidency. Democrats told us to vote for them but they never addressed the precursors to fascism. There is a massive overlap between Establishment Dems and MAGA, the Dems are just more polite about serving their billionaire donors.
You are mostly correct. And that’s the crucial bit. Because basically you, like OP, are saying “Dems are almost as bad as Reps, and therefore nothing matters anymore one shouldn’t even vote” and that’s where I disagree.
I’m not preaching nihilism. To the contrary, we need to be more involved in grassroots organizations now more than ever. Anyone who hasn’t done so should join a leftist org. Look for a PSL, DSA, FRSO, or CPUSA chapter near you.
Literally no one said not to vote. You can check. Y’all have yourselves in a group think so hard that you’ve made up some shit.
I even clarified that fact. Expecting more from your government is not nihilism, and y’all assuming someone criticizing the US duopoly as being nothing but nihilism is a problem, duder.
Did the growth outpace inflation under Biden?. The only thing I found in your link was a graph that ends with Biden’s first year that showed flat funding for ICE, plus some assertions about its total decades-long growth.
You’re absolutely right that ICE should be replaced with a few hundred bureaucratic functionaries to stamp passports. But I don’t think we get there without clear partisan blame.
If you scroll down there is a graph showing an increase of 760 million dollars. Here’s the graph for your convenience:
Note that the ICE budget is now over 9 billions dollars. (Even before Trump’s massive increase in 2025.) Inflation in 2023 was 4%. An increase to keep up with inflation would be about half of the increase that we see from 2023 to 2024.
The point is that there is no one to vote for that will abolish ICE because both parties agree that it should continue. And there are many such examples of bi-partisan agreement that supports the wealthy, fascism, or both. I’d be happy to list them for you if you’d like more concrete examples.
True. But it’s also true that most democrats aren’t much better than the current US admin. I can understand OP’s frustration when they vote to keep on funding ICE etc.
And it’s true that they rely almost just as much on corporate donors as the other side, and because of that most have given up on pushing for any kind of social policy.
I just wonder if those donors really are the same people on both sides, or if Dems have different corporate donors. I can imagine someone like Peter Thiel donating to both parties simultaneously, thinking he’s playing 5D chess, but nobody else.
Don’t hold me at gunpoint about the exact numbers but like 5 mega corporations own everything in the US, so when you get down to brass tacks about corporate donors? 🫠
Liberals never want to zoom out and look at how we got here. George Bush created ICE after 9/11 even though we already put down Al Queda leadership. Then Obama increased its budget and deported 3 million people. Then Trump increased the budget. Then Biden increased the budget. Then Trump increased the budget again.
George Bush created ICE after 9/11 even though we already put down Al Queda leadership. Then Obama increased its budget and deported 3 million people. Then Trump increased the budget. Then Biden increased the budget. Then Trump increased the budget again.
That’s a bit disingenuous
Also, yes Obama deported a lot, but all deportations went through immigration courts. trump actually is skipping that part. Going after people, many of who have pending cases (therefore technically are here legally and going through the proper channels to stay here).
The nuance is appreciated but it doesn’t negate the point. Democrats are okay with the police state, imperialism, corporate welfare, genocide, etc. so long as everything goes according to procedure and decorum.
Well, y’see, the other side historically has voted to increase/maintain this organization that’s terrorizing our country so…
Yes, they are both at fault. 🤷🏽♂️ I’m sorry that doesn’t align with your immediate reaction, but it doesn’t change their compliance with building this atrocity.
This isn’t team sports, bud, this is rich fucks versus normal people.
You want to stand on business about real change, you have to be ready and willing to hold the government accountable no matter the banner they fly under. I wanted Zohran and AOC to be better, but they’re not. They’re supporting cruelty and death across the globe. 🤷🏽♂️
You didn’t actually respond to the point, that you’re doing Trump’s job for him.
A lot of people didn’t vote last time because of the genocide in Gaza. Now we have a genocide in Gaza, an ongoing genocide in Ukraine, and new one in Venezuela, plus ICE killing folks here in the USA.
Mamdani and AOC are actively condemning pro Palestine protestors in NYC.
Not condemning the Zionists using synagogues in NYC to host real estate sales of West Bank properties.
Not condemning the pro Zionist counter protesters flying hate flags and spewing bile.
Immediately attacking the left.
They lied to get the votes and are knee capping momentum on the people’s movements to protect genocidal warmongers.
I am deeply sorry, and I understand it’s a pain in the ass to keep being disappointed in these politicians- But I’m not the villain for expecting the DNC to do better. 🤷🏽♂️
One of the executive orders that Mr. Mamdani revoked had codified a contentious definition of antisemitism, proposed by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, that equated some criticism of Israel with hatred of Jewish people. The other banned city agencies from boycotting Israel, a form of nonviolent protest that Mr. Mamdani has defended throughout his public life.
The first pass the post mathematically produces a two party system (not voting won’t change it, support ranked choice voting).
Republican party was essentially taken over by MAGA.
Democrats are basically everyone else. They have different views and that’s why they are not as effective.
Among Democrats there are so-called corporate democrats which normally would be Republicans, some of them might even be fine with trump.
The solution here isn’t being apathetic and so voting because “both parties are the same”.
The solution here is the opposite and being involved much more. Replacing those corporate Democrats with progressives in primaries and during general election voting for Democrats as every Republican that wins seat will be much worse than even those corporate democrats.
We got here because public apathy, and taking democracy for granted. People still don’t understand how fragile democracy is and how easy it is to lose it despite trump and Republicans being in the middle of destroying it.
So, one party is actually killing people in the streets but ‘both sides are the same?’
If I were the GOP that’s exactly the message I’d be pushing.
These people would “Bothsides” WW2. They’re not much more than useful idiots for Nazis.
You do realize that the powers of the president have been growing for some time now? That the militarization of the police took several decades? That the US has been involved in forever wars under both parties? That the working class has been on the decline for 50 years?
Just ask yourself: why would Biden increase the ICE budget after the first Trump presidency. Democrats told us to vote for them but they never addressed the precursors to fascism. There is a massive overlap between Establishment Dems and MAGA, the Dems are just more polite about serving their billionaire donors.
You are mostly correct. And that’s the crucial bit. Because basically you, like OP, are saying “Dems are almost as bad as Reps, and therefore
nothing matters anymoreone shouldn’t even vote” and that’s where I disagree.I’m not preaching nihilism. To the contrary, we need to be more involved in grassroots organizations now more than ever. Anyone who hasn’t done so should join a leftist org. Look for a PSL, DSA, FRSO, or CPUSA chapter near you.
Literally no one said not to vote. You can check. Y’all have yourselves in a group think so hard that you’ve made up some shit.
I even clarified that fact. Expecting more from your government is not nihilism, and y’all assuming someone criticizing the US duopoly as being nothing but nihilism is a problem, duder.
You’re just straight up lying. We’re on Lemmy dude. Posts and comments constantly saying not to vote. You’re not a serious person
Sorry, allow me to clarify AGAIN.
I didn’t tell you not to vote. Grow up and stop taking out your frustrations on me when you apparently have a problem with all of Lemmy.
Lying liar can’t stop lying
The null hypothesis here would be with “inflation”, and simpler explanations than yours would be “because Trump cut the funds” and “COVID lockdowns”
You may be right, but if you want anyone to accept your theory you need to provide sufficient evidence to overcome the simple answers.
The growth outpaces inflation.
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/the-cost-of-immigration-enforcement-and-border-security/
Truthfully, the entire agency should be abolished. Any Democrat politician who tells you this can be reformed is continuing the American police state.
Did the growth outpace inflation under Biden?. The only thing I found in your link was a graph that ends with Biden’s first year that showed flat funding for ICE, plus some assertions about its total decades-long growth.
You’re absolutely right that ICE should be replaced with a few hundred bureaucratic functionaries to stamp passports. But I don’t think we get there without clear partisan blame.
If you scroll down there is a graph showing an increase of 760 million dollars. Here’s the graph for your convenience:
Note that the ICE budget is now over 9 billions dollars. (Even before Trump’s massive increase in 2025.) Inflation in 2023 was 4%. An increase to keep up with inflation would be about half of the increase that we see from 2023 to 2024.
The point is that there is no one to vote for that will abolish ICE because both parties agree that it should continue. And there are many such examples of bi-partisan agreement that supports the wealthy, fascism, or both. I’d be happy to list them for you if you’d like more concrete examples.
True. But it’s also true that most democrats aren’t much better than the current US admin. I can understand OP’s frustration when they vote to keep on funding ICE etc.
And it’s true that they rely almost just as much on corporate donors as the other side, and because of that most have given up on pushing for any kind of social policy.
I just wonder if those donors really are the same people on both sides, or if Dems have different corporate donors. I can imagine someone like Peter Thiel donating to both parties simultaneously, thinking he’s playing 5D chess, but nobody else.
Don’t hold me at gunpoint about the exact numbers but like 5 mega corporations own everything in the US, so when you get down to brass tacks about corporate donors? 🫠
Liberals never want to zoom out and look at how we got here. George Bush created ICE after 9/11 even though we already put down Al Queda leadership. Then Obama increased its budget and deported 3 million people. Then Trump increased the budget. Then Biden increased the budget. Then Trump increased the budget again.
That’s a bit disingenuous
Also, yes Obama deported a lot, but all deportations went through immigration courts. trump actually is skipping that part. Going after people, many of who have pending cases (therefore technically are here legally and going through the proper channels to stay here).
The nuance is appreciated but it doesn’t negate the point. Democrats are okay with the police state, imperialism, corporate welfare, genocide, etc. so long as everything goes according to procedure and decorum.
Well, y’see, the other side historically has voted to increase/maintain this organization that’s terrorizing our country so…
Yes, they are both at fault. 🤷🏽♂️ I’m sorry that doesn’t align with your immediate reaction, but it doesn’t change their compliance with building this atrocity.
Trump is already talking about canceling the next election, and you want Progressives to stay home.
Sounds like you’re doing Trump’s job for him.
This isn’t team sports, bud, this is rich fucks versus normal people.
You want to stand on business about real change, you have to be ready and willing to hold the government accountable no matter the banner they fly under. I wanted Zohran and AOC to be better, but they’re not. They’re supporting cruelty and death across the globe. 🤷🏽♂️
You didn’t actually respond to the point, that you’re doing Trump’s job for him.
A lot of people didn’t vote last time because of the genocide in Gaza. Now we have a genocide in Gaza, an ongoing genocide in Ukraine, and new one in Venezuela, plus ICE killing folks here in the USA.
And the DNC has learned nothing.
Schumer and Jefferies can’t even muster the bare minimum of saying that ICE needs to be removed from our streets.
Sanders is playing both sides of Venezuela AND Israel.
Pelosi has more insider trading crimes under her belt than I have ass hair.
Stop blaming your neighbors and point that indignant rage at the people playing you like a fool. Demand better than shiny turds.
Mamdani and AOC did it, in the strongest Democrat strong hold in the nation.
Who are you pushing in the primaries? How much have you sent to ActBlue?
Mamdani and AOC are actively condemning pro Palestine protestors in NYC.
Not condemning the Zionists using synagogues in NYC to host real estate sales of West Bank properties.
Not condemning the pro Zionist counter protesters flying hate flags and spewing bile.
Immediately attacking the left.
They lied to get the votes and are knee capping momentum on the people’s movements to protect genocidal warmongers.
I am deeply sorry, and I understand it’s a pain in the ass to keep being disappointed in these politicians- But I’m not the villain for expecting the DNC to do better. 🤷🏽♂️
You would have let the Nazis keep rolling, because the Birts and the Americans were racist, too.
Your “evidence” belies that & reveals it’s about objecting to Hamas.
Mamdani is a pro-Palestinian critic of Israel.
AOC has been one of Israel’s sharpest critics in Congress, led a push to halt American military aid to Israel, criticized Israel’s genocide in Gaza. Claiming she isn’t pro-Palestinian is tired purity bullshit.
Youre the reason that lady died last week
You got downvoted for being right
Sure I am, puddin.
You would rather let hitler rule than vote against him so, Yeah you are
The first pass the post mathematically produces a two party system (not voting won’t change it, support ranked choice voting).
Republican party was essentially taken over by MAGA.
Democrats are basically everyone else. They have different views and that’s why they are not as effective.
Among Democrats there are so-called corporate democrats which normally would be Republicans, some of them might even be fine with trump.
The solution here isn’t being apathetic and so voting because “both parties are the same”.
The solution here is the opposite and being involved much more. Replacing those corporate Democrats with progressives in primaries and during general election voting for Democrats as every Republican that wins seat will be much worse than even those corporate democrats.
We got here because public apathy, and taking democracy for granted. People still don’t understand how fragile democracy is and how easy it is to lose it despite trump and Republicans being in the middle of destroying it.